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◄ Chat Log 12.04.2018 ►

[00:04:14] unsteddyphoenix High notoriety
[00:04:20] unsteddyphoenix So jealous~
[00:04:46] TheBeckoner has eaten half of a pizza
[00:16:52] Dadrobit Best Pizza Delivery Person Ever: https://imgur.com/a/UopJF
[00:20:07] Dadrobit Also, it's fun to see this development in what people think of me in the forums. I think I have more character growth there at this point than most of the TK cast :D
[00:21:19] Bgrmystr2 Well yeah, the story of the TK forums is written by a lot of people..
[00:21:43] Bgrmystr2 it's got it's highs and lows.. prolly still a pretty good read
[00:28:22] unsteddyphoenix Thats a pretty cute gril~
[00:28:41] unsteddyphoenix How is the forums nowadays
[00:29:02] unsteddyphoenix Like, in general
[00:29:08] unsteddyphoenix Interesting discussions?
[00:34:19] Dadrobit Not frequenting it as much as I used to. But a lot of the discussion so far as I can tell is generally surrounding how evil or not evil certain characters are.
[00:34:59] Dadrobit S'why I'm catching a lot of flac lately, defending Keiren and Euchre, whilst defaming Trace.
[00:35:19] Dadrobit Some of those guys are gosh darned nuts though.
[00:35:36] unsteddyphoenix Well yeah. Furries.
[00:35:37] TheBeckoner That's a pretty good pizza deliverer
[00:36:29] unsteddyphoenix Isnt it though :ctwokinds-NoraEyebrows:
[00:36:51] unsteddyphoenix Hit me with your Keiren defense argument
[00:37:04] Dadrobit "I certainly wouldn't mind if kei was butchered, though... and his death could even be a joke, like, he could be dying slowly, reaching out to flora, begging her to hear his last words... only for trace and flora to run off, ignoring him completely as he
[00:37:06] Dadrobit dies alone. ...what? i'd just find that REALLY funny."
[00:37:34] TheBeckoner well alright then
[00:37:46] unsteddyphoenix Someone shops at hot topic
[00:38:52] Dadrobit Essentially, my point is that Keiren has shown himself to be kind to keidran via his "best friend" relationship with Flora even as a kid up to only a year ago, while Trace was a racist bastard even as a child who grew up actively seeking out slaves for
[00:39:00] Dadrobit himself even before the crazy happened.
[00:39:24] Dadrobit And that Keiren's racism towards Wolves is absolutely justified.
[00:39:43] unsteddyphoenix mmm not sure racism is ever "justified"
[00:39:47] Dadrobit The wolves aren't being labeled as "evil" just because of a few bad apples, the whole dang orchard is rotten and it's lucky that even a single bushel is actually palatable.
[00:39:48] unsteddyphoenix UNDERSTANDABLE maybe
[00:40:09] TheBeckoner or perhaps Justifiable...to him
[00:40:26] unsteddyphoenix ehhhh
[00:40:27] Dadrobit Correct, I specified that in my postings
[00:41:55] Dadrobit Bringing war against the humans, killing the human king, likely attacking Edinmire prior to the false flag, razing towns including the one(s?) that were welcoming to keidran, killing their own even at just the suggestion that the wolf was fraternizing w/
[00:42:11] Vatruvius Sounds like I should stay clear of the forums then...with this can of talk I will lose my mind.
[00:42:23] Dadrobit a human, even two of the "protagonist" wolves are just killers for hire.
[00:42:44] TheBeckoner has fallen victim to sleep and soft fabrics
[00:43:29] unsteddyphoenix Can someone who has no recollection of their crimes truly be held accountable?
[00:43:36] unsteddyphoenix It's kind of a tricky question
[00:43:46] Dadrobit When they continue to do things like kill children?
[00:43:51] Vatruvius has fallen victim to soft fabrics hours ago and now feels as if he is laying in a warm cloud.
[00:44:07] unsteddyphoenix Well he was REALLY UPSET /s
[00:44:16] Dadrobit Yeaaaaaah, I'm not a big fan of Trace's ambivalence to his own atrocities.
[00:44:46] Vatruvius It is like persecuting a 9 year old for killing their drunk father not realizing what death really is and such.
[00:45:20] Dadrobit And that's part of my pro-Keiren argument, in that even for his transgressions against a single tiger, Kei has taken action to try and make amends.
[00:45:27] unsteddyphoenix Trace could be getting puppeteered by some outside force though
[00:45:31] Vatruvius Trace clearly has shown to not want to be what he was...though that seems to be way far from the norm.
[00:45:32] unsteddyphoenix A la spooky smok
[00:45:39] unsteddyphoenix Couldve been originally too
[00:45:47] Dadrobit While Trace has killed hundres of thousands and has shown exactly zero remorse or desire to do anything other than run away
[00:46:03] Dadrobit hundreds*
[00:46:29] unsteddyphoenix Well that's true. He's kind of hard to defend really.
[00:46:33] Dadrobit Yeah, that is something that I've speculated in the past that he was approached by a mask like Mary in his time of grief and he let her in.
[00:46:49] Vatruvius What we do know about Trace is that his past has forged him to be this maniac in power.
[00:47:16] Dadrobit However, it still doesn't account for his referring to keidran as "it"s as well as actively buying his own slave(s) before hand.
[00:47:28] Vatruvius Losing his memories has kinda hit the reset button on who else he could have been had things gone differently.
[00:47:36] unsteddyphoenix he was like, 12
[00:47:49] unsteddyphoenix Thats not even a real person
[00:48:08] unsteddyphoenix Still, keirens overall attitude and demeanor is telling to me. He gives Flora those papers, but then tries to assert control in the situation multiple times.
[00:48:21] unsteddyphoenix Trying to grab Flora to talk, randomly arresting trace out of nowhere
[00:48:24] Vatruvius Also...he only bought the one slave as far as we know for sure right?
[00:48:45] Dadrobit And it's important to remember, the Dark Trace of now is not the same as when he was originally evil. He turned to the dark side simply when he realized his powers whiles still not having his old memories.
[00:49:01] Vatruvius Kei may have good intentions...but he is shit at acting on them.
[00:49:44] unsteddyphoenix I think he BELIEVES he has good intentions.
[00:49:47] Dadrobit Flora made Trace seem like someone who could do harm, Kei was protecting her from a possible outburst from Trace
[00:50:37] unsteddyphoenix Kei was the one she was scared of, which he chose to ignore
[00:50:41] Vatruvius His powers were drawn from the dark mana right...so it is a double edged sword. You cannot be all powerful without no consequences.
[00:50:54] unsteddyphoenix Bragging about being guard captain and "knowing her first"
[00:51:17] unsteddyphoenix Implying that Trace should concede to his authority, regardless of Floras feelings
[00:51:24] Vatruvius Flora was not at all scared of Trace in any way.
[00:51:29] Vatruvius Not with Kei around.
[00:51:34] Dadrobit She was looking at Trace when she said, "please don't hurt him," and it was Trace who accosted Keiren first.
[00:51:35] unsteddyphoenix Thats the mind of a slaver owner
[00:52:27] Vatruvius Umm...I do not think that is how that went Dadro.
[00:52:36] unsteddyphoenix a c c o s t e d
[00:52:50] Dadrobit Trace was the aggressor, prior to Trace grabbing at him, Kei only wanted to talk.
[00:52:51] Vatruvius Kei instigated the situation.
[00:52:56] unsteddyphoenix He stopped kei from grabbing a defenseless frightened woman what a villian
[00:53:15] unsteddyphoenix The outstretched hand of discourse
[00:54:22] Dadrobit Just looks like he's reaching out to her to reinforce his metaphorical outreach to me.
[00:55:05] unsteddyphoenix Yeah, Trace! You havent considered the METAPHORICAL IMPLICATIONS you fool!
[00:55:26] Vatruvius Here is the page.
[00:55:36] Vatruvius http://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/859/
[00:55:54] Vatruvius Flora clearly wanted Kei to leave her alone so Tom was protecting her.
[00:56:01] Dadrobit Tom?
[00:56:04] unsteddyphoenix T O M
[00:56:08] Vatruvius lol
[00:56:13] Vatruvius Trave
[00:56:19] unsteddyphoenix Ah, Trave
[00:56:28] Vatruvius I get my T names mied up.
[00:56:37] Vatruvius :ptv-sad:
[00:56:42] Dadrobit Good old Trave
[00:57:14] unsteddyphoenix Bottom line, I just see Keiren wanting control over Flora again. I dont think he's really "reformed" though he might think he is.
[00:58:15] unsteddyphoenix Either that or his apologies is a manipulative front
[00:58:20] unsteddyphoenix But that seems a bit dark
[00:58:22] Vatruvius Kei may want what is best for Flora but he does not know what is best and thinks he knows which is the problem.
[00:58:49] Dadrobit I see it as the exact opposite, I think he's absolutely earnest in his attempts to make amends with Flora.
[00:58:54] Bgrmystr2 "Keep away from me" Flora says says specifically to Keiran. She was scared of him. That's why Trace defended her. Anyone with proper mind would have done the same.
[00:59:44] Vatruvius I am not saying Kei does not want to make amends...he most definitely does but he just assumes he knows what is the best way to make amends which is usually not what Flora wants.
[00:59:58] Bgrmystr2 Trace's dark half coming to bear when flora's afraid isn't really doing him any favors, but it was only there because of the situation at hand.
[01:00:16] Dadrobit IIRC, Tom said that he hit her with a crossbow bolt during the escape, and that's why she was collapsed in the steam/river in the flashback, so I get her trepidation, but I still consider him a better person than Trace in general.
[01:00:25] Bgrmystr2 I think Kei's just not the best at wording lol
[01:00:37] Vatruvius We know Trace's dark side comes out when Flora is in danger...that is consistent.
[01:00:38] Bgrmystr2 and yeah that probably didn't help him
[01:00:44] unsteddyphoenix Yeah, I mean. I could see him being a better person, honestly.
[01:00:55] unsteddyphoenix I just dont think he's a good person, in general.
[01:01:10] Bgrmystr2 Better person than Trace WAS, before he lost his memory, no shit
[01:01:22] Bgrmystr2 but that doesn't make him a GOOD person morally.
[01:01:22] TheBeckoner most peolpe would be lol
[01:02:33] Dadrobit Being the least rotten apple doesn't really look good, but it is what it is. Pretty much every human in the comic is a dick, barring Karen, but she's 99% comic relief.
[01:02:52] unsteddyphoenix Though, Dads probably right in a meta sense
[01:02:54] Dadrobit Keiren is one of the least rotten apples.
[01:03:08] unsteddyphoenix Tom probably wants Kei to be a "good character"
[01:03:08] Vatruvius My impressions of Trace is that he is good at heart but what made him an evil, power maniac is just how tainted he had become. From Saria's death to Trace's tinkering in dark magic...it just was not good.
[01:03:44] unsteddyphoenix If the best defense of a character is "could be worse" I wouldnt bother defending them.
[01:04:05] Dadrobit Nah, you're not convincing me that Trace is good at heart when he gets into a shouting match, "the whole town could hear" over trying to justify owning a slave with his wife.
[01:04:26] Bgrmystr2 Old trace was obviously not good at heart.
[01:04:34] Bgrmystr2 before he lost his memories
[01:04:44] Bgrmystr2 he was an evil dickbag :o
[01:04:55] Vatruvius Umm...it is common for humans to have slaves so you would be considered weird otherwise Dadro...part of the cultur.
[01:04:55] Bgrmystr2 but that doesn't apply to who he is now, which is very different
[01:05:19] Dadrobit I don't think he's good at heart now tbh. He still didn't have his memories when he turned into Evil Trace post-memory wipe.
[01:05:40] Dadrobit The only thing that drove him to that was the realization of his power.
[01:05:41] unsteddyphoenix Maaan id be so hype if Trace became the villian
[01:05:47] unsteddyphoenix And Raine took over as protagonist
[01:05:49] unsteddyphoenix THat'd be sick
[01:06:26] Dadrobit I'm in favor
[01:06:49] unsteddyphoenix Avenge her mother, fight against Trace and possibly her father supporting him
[01:06:51] unsteddyphoenix Such DRAMA
[01:06:52] Bgrmystr2 The fact that Trace goes out of his way to protect the very people he was slaughtering before the comic started kinda proves that he has a pretty good heart now compared to back then, Dadro.
[01:07:03] Dadrobit Euchre joins up with his daughter to take him down
[01:07:07] Vatruvius Hmm...but that would go against the build up of his character.
[01:07:28] unsteddyphoenix 'spose that could work too
[01:07:46] unsteddyphoenix Idk if it would honestly. Trace is losing control more and more
[01:08:15] Bgrmystr2 Is he? I don't know about that.
[01:08:22] unsteddyphoenix Evil smok whispering evil thoughts in his ears~
[01:08:24] Dadrobit He has "gone out of his way" only once, and is it really going out f your way when the fight comes to you and threatens to kill you directly as well as burning everything around you?
[01:08:29] Vatruvius Then let's agree to disagree...I am too tired to argue right now.
[01:08:29] Dadrobit of*
[01:09:02] unsteddyphoenix This is a debate
[01:09:05] Bgrmystr2 If anything, he lost control entirely, and didn't / couldn't fight back in the early parts of the comic. In the recent pages, that evil smoke thing he's fighting against and winning.
[01:09:21] unsteddyphoenix But the smok is becoming more and more present
[01:09:27] Dadrobit Dude's run away the whole time and generally taken a "kill everything in my escape route" aesthetic to heart.
[01:09:29] Bgrmystr2 So I'd consider him doing way better than before at controlling the darkness in him
[01:09:57] FenceEqualizer Yes cause he could have easily not been involved in saving anyone and just stayed hidden
[01:10:11] Dadrobit In fact "I'll kill you all and sort it out later." is a direct quote."
[01:10:29] Bgrmystr2 yeah fence
[01:10:39] Bgrmystr2 he could have just stayed hidden
[01:10:42] Bgrmystr2 but he didn't
[01:10:58] FenceEqualizer Also o/ all.
[01:11:00] Vatruvius Whatever the case...Trace is actively puttung others before him and trying to do good...avoiding what he once was.
[01:11:37] unsteddyphoenix Yeah he's trying out this whole "morality" thing, we'll see how he likes it
[01:11:40] Bgrmystr2 Dadro, the page you're talking about is this http://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/513/
[01:11:49] Bgrmystr2 and that was obviously trace's evil side
[01:11:53] Bgrmystr2 w/ the tower's influence
[01:12:06] Dadrobit Could he have stayed hidden? The wolves were literally attacking everything. "No one is going anywhere... You will all burn together, traitors and fools alike!"
[01:12:24] Bgrmystr2 Yeah, probably. If he ran away like everyone else
[01:12:29] Bgrmystr2 but he chose not to
[01:12:39] Bgrmystr2 that's going out of his way
[01:12:56] Vatruvius It just shows he has a good heart wanting to save all those people.
[01:12:57] Bgrmystr2 he didn't even know if he could fight back
[01:13:19] Bgrmystr2 his actions speak louder to me than your words do, dadro. :/
[01:13:23] Dadrobit Nah, not giving it to him. He was barely more than a cornered rat who bit back.
[01:13:28] FenceEqualizer Honestly. Yes. He could have stayed out of it unless directly attacked himself. As we saw he clearly has the strength to take care of himself and Flora.
[01:13:56] FenceEqualizer I mean if cornered means the rat jumping in front of the mouse to bite the cat sure
[01:14:28] unsteddyphoenix How much magic does he even have right now
[01:14:31] unsteddyphoenix Is it even established?
[01:14:32] Bgrmystr2 He wasn't even cornered at all. He was in a mob of people that would have scattered when they started attacking the city
[01:14:36] Vatruvius This is an I nteresting viee I have not seen...
[01:15:12] Bgrmystr2 considering a lot of them were already running to begin with, you can only kill so many people with an attack group of what, 5?
[01:15:19] Dadrobit And it speaks volumes to me of his "morality" when the best he has to offer is taking Grand Templar strength and eventually deciding to help stop a genocide.
[01:15:34] FenceEqualizer Truth be told not sure how much officially he has but it's shown he has a fair ammount
[01:15:48] Vatruvius Maybe the forum posts are getting to you Dadro...because the comic does not play out like that at all.
[01:16:04] Bgrmystr2 xD I dunno about that Vatru
[01:16:12] Bgrmystr2 Dadro just might be like this. :P
[01:16:38] unsteddyphoenix Its kind of vague. Dunno what his upper limit of magical control is. Without that we dont know exactly how much he couldve done in these scenarios
[01:16:43] Dadrobit Going out of his way to me would have been dropping the facade immediately, instead of having to debate on how many innocent deaths was worth keeping his identity a secret.
[01:16:43] FenceEqualizer Well to be fair Trace has a huge backlog of crimes under his belt
[01:16:55] Vatruvius Maybe...but I have read the comic 7 times going on 8 and I have not seen this at all.
[01:16:56] Bgrmystr2 that was already established, Fence yeah
[01:17:25] FenceEqualizer But I don't think it means he's irredeemable
[01:17:27] unsteddyphoenix So if someone has the power to act, it's evil if they dont act?
[01:17:41] Bgrmystr2 If Dadro says it is, Phoenix, then I guess so?
[01:17:48] FenceEqualizer Depends on the situation
[01:17:49] Dadrobit Accessory to murder! :D
[01:17:59] FenceEqualizer ._.
[01:18:07] Bgrmystr2 I mean, he remains unconvincable even though trace's actions prove otherwise.
[01:18:33] unsteddyphoenix Was it evil of Euchre not to save Rose immediately then?
[01:18:59] FenceEqualizer Depends on the situation
[01:19:01] Dadrobit I don't think he's irredeemable either. However I have not seen anything pointing towards him actively seeking redemption until it was absolutely forced on him.
[01:19:19] Dadrobit Yes, and I made that point as well.
[01:19:21] Vatruvius Dadro...Trace said in the comic that he could not live with himself standing by while lettings others get hurt...that is why he acted. He did not have a counter and said"well...that is 11 people dead...that crosses the line...I have to act now"
[01:19:45] Bgrmystr2 xD But Vatru.. There is clearly a line!
[01:19:57] Dadrobit Like I said, pretty much everyone in the comic is rotten. It's just a case of who's least rotten. :)
[01:20:22] Bgrmystr2 Honestly, dadro, I don't think you have a very good judgement of character
[01:20:31] Bgrmystr2 my personal opinion, of course
[01:20:36] Dadrobit But Trace's first reaction to the battle was in fact, "run!"
[01:20:43] Bgrmystr2 but tis what I feel.
[01:20:44] Dadrobit Not "help"
[01:20:45] Vatruvius Take your vile "who is the most evil" talk back to the forum. It is not welcome here.
[01:20:45] FenceEqualizer Damn that is super cynical
[01:21:07] Dadrobit http://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/915/
[01:21:21] Dadrobit "Flora, we should get out of here."
[01:21:33] unsteddyphoenix I'd argue that his first thought was "keep Flora safe"
[01:21:51] unsteddyphoenix Is he evil for placing her single life over multiple others?
[01:21:56] FenceEqualizer And my phone attempt to explode for taping that, the hell?
[01:21:59] Dadrobit That's the same thought Dark Trace had when he killed all of the children and the King's Guard.
[01:21:59] Vatruvius That is called a survival instinct Dadro...it is hooked up to the floght or fight response. Google it.
[01:22:25] unsteddyphoenix Dont say "google it" when youre arguing something.
[01:22:43] Dadrobit Aye, more than a little insulting.
[01:22:43] unsteddyphoenix If youre going to make a point present the facts
[01:22:55] unsteddyphoenix Otherwise dont
[01:23:04] Vatruvius I am not going to give a bioligy lesson...that is why I said google it.
[01:23:19] unsteddyphoenix Ok well next itme dont say anything if youre going to be like that
[01:23:22] Bgrmystr2 His thoughts of leaving were before they appeared on the wall and starting fireballing the city
[01:23:28] unsteddyphoenix Super shitty. Really annoys me.
[01:23:55] Vatruvius You are shitty for acting that way unsteddy. I did nothing wrong.
[01:24:03] unsteddyphoenix Yes you did and no im not
[01:24:23] unsteddyphoenix Or, other way around, I guess.
[01:24:27] Dadrobit The thoughts also happened after the initial attack exploded the harbor and set a portion of the town on fire.
[01:24:29] unsteddyphoenix Im not and you did.
[01:25:13] Bgrmystr2 Yeah, and they didn't know where it was coming from, Dadro. His priority was laying low
[01:25:20] Dadrobit Taking the "flight" path in the presence of danger to a people actively seeking to help set right the wrongs that he himself had helped foster, is not going out of his way.
[01:25:32] FenceEqualizer Honestly I think your expectations are high. What do you expect him to do? Stuff randomly exploded before the mages showed themselves
[01:25:43] Bgrmystr2 exactly, fence
[01:25:45] Vatruvius Okay...I feel like talking to WIP would be better...as if I am talking to a 5 year old. You do not own this chat unsteddy neither does it give you the right to attack others because something annoys you.
[01:25:57] FenceEqualizer It's like he had to rip his cloak and shout I'll save everyone!
[01:26:16] FenceEqualizer Without even knowing what's happening
[01:26:16] Dadrobit My expectations are for him to actively seek solutions other than "run"
[01:26:31] unsteddyphoenix Well go join him then.
[01:26:40] unsteddyphoenix Anyway, I just dont agree that just because you have power to act it means you have to use it or youre literally the worst.
[01:26:51] Dadrobit Damned skippy I will! :)
[01:27:19] FenceEqualizer Kinda need to know the problem first. Trace is strong but he's not super man. Especially with his mind being wiped.
[01:27:19] Dadrobit And that's fine! Opinions are what they are. :)
[01:27:42] Bgrmystr2 Honestly, dadro, you're not giving it a fair look at all, and making trace out as the bad person when he didn't know what you know from a few panels later.
[01:27:54] unsteddyphoenix Yeah we'll have to agree to disagree on that point
[01:27:57] Bgrmystr2 you're ignoring the time element and the mindset
[01:28:15] Dadrobit I'll tell you what doesn't help figure out the problem: Running from the problem.
[01:28:26] Bgrmystr2 He didn't run, though did he?
[01:28:36] Dadrobit But it was his first instinct.
[01:28:49] unsteddyphoenix Can you really blame him for that?
[01:28:51] Bgrmystr2 because the city wasn't being attacked at the time
[01:28:58] Bgrmystr2 the docks were hit, and so were the cages
[01:29:00] Bgrmystr2 but not the city
[01:29:02] unsteddyphoenix Just his initial reaction to a surprise?
[01:29:08] unsteddyphoenix That is a bit too harsh
[01:29:08] FenceEqualizer I think that's most people's first instinct to random explosions
[01:29:12] Bgrmystr2 so it's not actually surprisng
[01:29:16] Bgrmystr2 surprising* even
[01:29:34] Vatruvius Not to mention, Trace's reaction to run is a good reaction considering he and the group has been run down multiple times by multiple parties.
[01:29:42] Bgrmystr2 fuck, gotta brb for a few mins >:c
[01:29:45] Dadrobit http://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/915/ More than the docks had been hit at that time. The flames were licking at the trees on the street
[01:30:46] Dadrobit All I'm saying is, that I'm not going to place Trace above Kei in terms of goodness when Trace's reaction is to run from the problem, where Kei's is to at least try to help get people to safety.
[01:31:25] FenceEqualizer I mean he's a Guard Captain. It's kind of his Job.
[01:31:28] unsteddyphoenix Kei was in a position of authority though. Good chance he'd be running with the rest otherwise
[01:31:43] Vatruvius It is literally Kei's job to get people to safety.
[01:32:42] unsteddyphoenix If a regular person tried to organise a crowd it prolly wouldnt work
[01:32:45] unsteddyphoenix People respecc the uniform
[01:33:27] Dadrobit Nope, but Trace could have revealed himself prior and garnered the authority back well prior to the attack.
[01:34:09] Dadrobit But I suppose that would be going too far out of his way to at least try and seek redemption.
[01:34:13] Vatruvius What authority? The templar are after him and the wolves were suppose to attack.
[01:34:46] Vatruvius He has wanted posters.
[01:34:55] unsteddyphoenix So he has to throw aside his anonymity putting himself and everyone he knows in danger in order to potentially save strangers?
[01:35:13] unsteddyphoenix I just cant agree with that.
[01:35:16] Dadrobit He knew the delegation was coming, he could have revealed himself as an ally. It would have been a risk, but that's the thing about going out of your way, it's risky.
[01:35:23] unsteddyphoenix I value people I know far more than people I dont know
[01:36:07] unsteddyphoenix I think this is just difference of philosophies in the end
[01:36:12] Vatruvius The delegation would not care...Trace no longer represents the Templar.
[01:36:13] FenceEqualizer That seems out of character. Not even selfishness just that This Trace doesn't seem to see himself as that past Trace. I doubt the idea even came to his head to use his prior position like that.
[01:36:35] Dadrobit Yeah, devil's advocate is kind of my thing.
[01:36:46] FenceEqualizer Especially in such a crazy situation. He's not the leader type.
[01:37:04] FenceEqualizer Your too strong!
[01:37:09] FenceEqualizer You're
[01:37:31] Dadrobit I've spent years perfecting my craft of bullshit spitballing! :D
[01:37:53] unsteddyphoenix Character not perfect good? EVIL :ctwokinds-nataniAAAAshake:
[01:38:12] Vatruvius I mean...Trace could pull off being the noble hero in every situation if had knew the extent of his powers and had control over them. As it stands he he barely even knows much about the world, let alone himself and his powers.
[01:38:19] Dadrobit Absolutely! I'm glad you see things my way! :)
[01:38:39] FenceEqualizer Damn well you got me then Robit. Lol.
[01:39:21] Dadrobit It's too bad it took a thousand pages for him to get to trying out being a good guy.
[01:40:02] Vatruvius I mean...he did not know anything of tge world so...
[01:40:05] FenceEqualizer Hah, it doesn't help that 50 pages is like a day.
[01:41:45] Vatruvius What good could you do Dadro if your memories were wiped and you did not even know who uou were? It would take time too...that or your story would be a short read. :ptv-tease:
[01:41:56] unsteddyphoenix Its true, Raine is far more heroic than him. Shes all about saving the day.
[01:42:04] unsteddyphoenix Funny that~
[01:42:29] Dadrobit Seeeeeee~ It all adds up! Raine is the real protagonist!
[01:42:46] Vatruvius Raine has all of her memories...also she is in a totally different position.
[01:42:51] Bgrmystr2 Back, sorry. Bathroom break wasn't gonna wait, so neither could I. :ptv-uneasy:
[01:43:01] FenceEqualizer Petition for Group B to be moved to group A
[01:43:10] Vatruvius *facepalms*
[01:43:45] Dadrobit Yeah, she spent her whole life locked away with little to no magical training, she has no idea of what her power is capable of, but at least she tries to help the people around her, even the one's who she barely knows!
[01:43:54] Dadrobit ones*
[01:44:13] Bgrmystr2 Honestly, I just don't see Trace the way you do, Dadro. You're ignoring things that matter like time and thought process. You're also looking at the comic with hindsight expecting trace to see it the same way. That's not how anything works.
[01:44:23] Dadrobit I could do this alllll day
[01:44:49] Bgrmystr2 In order to fight back against the Templar, trace needs to know what to do. He doesn't know right now. He can't fight back if he's dead.
[01:45:08] Bgrmystr2 and if Flora's dead, there's no point fighting back either.
[01:45:14] Bgrmystr2 because she means everything to him.
[01:45:23] unsteddyphoenix Could you? We've pretty much confirmed youre wrong about Trace.
[01:45:25] Vatruvius She still has her memories and both Trace and Taine wete raised differently. Not every character in a situation can be the noble hero Dadro. The world is not black and white!
[01:45:31] Dadrobit Naaaaaaah
[01:45:37] unsteddyphoenix And im feelin pretty good with my Keiren points
[01:45:42] unsteddyphoenix *about
[01:46:18] Bgrmystr2 Keiren's no saint, obviously. But he's better than old trace cuz old trace was an evil asshole. New trace without memories is just in a chaotic world trying to make do with what he has.
[01:46:34] Bgrmystr2 Keiren's trying to make ammends, and that's good, but he's not the best at doing it
[01:46:46] unsteddyphoenix Agreed that Raine is objectively more traditionally heroic that Trace
[01:46:59] unsteddyphoenix And is a better person overall
[01:47:22] unsteddyphoenix And is and big closet perv
[01:47:28] Dadrobit Best part
[01:47:29] Bgrmystr2 Raine seems to be pretty solid, but she doesn't have to worry about an evil inside of her or a dark past chasing after her
[01:47:30] Bgrmystr2 etc
[01:47:40] Vatruvius Nothing is linear like you two make it out to be! Agh!
[01:47:47] unsteddyphoenix Inb4 Raine smok
[01:48:10] unsteddyphoenix "Write more smut about your friends~ you know you want to~"
[01:48:19] Dadrobit I'd read that side comic.
[01:48:34] Vatruvius leaves before he loses it.
[01:48:45] Bgrmystr2 Honestly, I don't see a problem with Raine because she doesn't have anything to struggle with other than turning Keidran.
[01:48:48] Dadrobit Also, the US60 is pretty damned linear. Straight shot for like 40 miles.
[01:49:37] Bgrmystr2 Trace has a LOT of problems that he struggles with. I'd like to see anyone here try to be a saint when given the straws that Trace didn't even choose to draw.
[01:50:02] unsteddyphoenix Well he did but then he forgot
[01:50:13] Bgrmystr2 I don't know about that
[01:50:37] unsteddyphoenix The question is, is the evil smoke an outside influence, or is it a representation of his "true self" that Flora is inadvertently suppressing
[01:50:59] Bgrmystr2 I don't think Trace chose to lose his memories
[01:51:13] Dadrobit Ahhhhh, stream lost connection, everything is gone.
[01:51:17] Bgrmystr2 he wouldn't be in the situation he's in now if it weren't for that
[01:51:20] unsteddyphoenix lol rip
[01:51:21] Bgrmystr2 RIP dadro
[01:51:35] Dadrobit I'm hoping that the smoke is the influence of a mask honestly.
[01:51:57] unsteddyphoenix He couldve chosen, actually. Maybe he had a sudden moment of clarity and ASKED for the mind wipe to forget the HORRORS
[01:51:57] Dadrobit Give the masks a more prominent place in the plot
[01:52:10] unsteddyphoenix Down for some more mask action
[01:52:42] Bgrmystr2 Based on who likely did it, I highly doubt trace chose the mindwipe himself, Phoenix
[01:52:54] Bgrmystr2 considering he was kind of leading a charge against those who killed his wife
[01:53:01] Bgrmystr2 he was in the middle of something
[01:53:05] Bgrmystr2 why would he want to stop?
[01:53:10] Dadrobit Hmmm, dunno, Neutral seemed to have planned for him to regain his memories. Him wanting to escape what he did probably wouldn help?
[01:53:15] Dadrobit wouldn't*
[01:54:03] unsteddyphoenix ok it's a long shot
[01:54:06] unsteddyphoenix What a twist tho~
[01:55:30] Dadrobit It certainly would be. But there's too much mystique surrounding the 3rd floor and the horrors it could unleash for him to suddenly give Dark Trace a way out.
[01:55:35] Dadrobit If that makes sense.
[01:56:10] unsteddyphoenix What could it beeee~ :ctwokinds-maddiessparkles:
[01:56:22] Dadrobit Like, I would think if he was trying to escape himself, he'd get rid of whatever he was keeping in there rather than lock it away in his house.
[01:56:52] Dadrobit A dark shrine and possible the corpse of Saria.
[01:56:58] Dadrobit possibly*
[01:57:05] unsteddyphoenix Locking it behind his hella magically trapped house is a pretty safe place
[01:57:15] Dadrobit Yeah, but it's still his house.
[01:57:38] Dadrobit Get rid of it completely I would think is the action to go for.
[01:57:52] Dadrobit Especially if he had the potential assist form Nora.
[01:58:00] unsteddyphoenix There could be some reason why he couldnt/doesnt want to destroy it.
[01:58:17] unsteddyphoenix As far as hiding places go, his house is pretty good
[01:58:22] Dadrobit I'm just speaking from the point of him trying to escape himself.
[01:58:48] Dadrobit Locking the dark part of yourself away in your own home doesn't seem safe in the long run.
[01:59:09] unsteddyphoenix Maybe he asked Nora not to let himself access it.
[01:59:13] Dadrobit And it doesn't sound terribly secure if Euchre has to reinforce to Rose that no one is to be allowed inside.
[01:59:43] unsteddyphoenix Well he just doesnt want them murdered from all the traps of course~
[01:59:45] unsteddyphoenix What a good guy
[01:59:51] Dadrobit Good Guy Trace
[02:00:02] Dadrobit I was wrong all along! :O
[02:00:38] Dadrobit Oh, wait, you meant Euchre.
[02:00:50] Dadrobit Trace is still the most evil person ever confirmed.
[02:00:54] unsteddyphoenix Yeah
[02:01:12] unsteddyphoenix Trace is literally Trace tbh
[02:01:14] unsteddyphoenix The WORST
[02:01:36] Bgrmystr2 Are you guys actually talking about trace splitting into a good half and a bad half or somethin?
[02:02:00] FenceEqualizer That would be fun/Horrific
[02:02:19] Bgrmystr2 evil trace vs good trace deathbattle get
[02:02:35] Dadrobit Fun and horrific sounds like the subtitle to the book on my relationships.
[02:02:37] unsteddyphoenix Nah, im saying his pre-wipe self possibly stopping his post-wipe self from accessing the third floor
[02:02:54] Dadrobit Soooo, Death Note?
[02:03:02] Dadrobit Reversed kind of
[02:03:09] FenceEqualizer Or maybe dark Trace erases good trace cause of what he saw
[02:03:14] unsteddyphoenix Yeah!
[02:03:20] Bgrmystr2 That's only presuming he had intentions of having his memory wiped. But for what purpose would he need to do that?
[02:03:20] unsteddyphoenix Ooo~
[02:03:54] Dadrobit The postulate was that Trace regained lucidity and wanted to get away from what he'd done.
[02:03:57] unsteddyphoenix Toooo forget the horrors of his past? Maybe when he saw Laura in that cage that one time his heart grew 3 sizes
[02:04:20] Dadrobit Dark Trace, worse than a seasick crocodile.
[02:04:33] Bgrmystr2 oh god that song, Dadro xD
[02:04:54] Dadrobit I love that song, this voice was made to sing it.
[02:04:57] FenceEqualizer Then shrunk two sizes as he wore a wolfs spleen like a fashion accessory
[02:05:07] Bgrmystr2 haha
[02:05:17] unsteddyphoenix Sacrifices have to be made for FASHION
[02:05:31] Dadrobit Yeahhhhh, the meeting with Laura was kinda tainted by him impaling keidran on pikes and ripping off their limbs.
[02:05:45] Dadrobit Literal sacrifices.
[02:05:51] unsteddyphoenix It was a slow burn of conscience
[02:06:04] Dadrobit Everything except self sacrifice, because he's literally incapable of that.
[02:06:05] unsteddyphoenix Lumbering epiphany
[02:06:23] Bgrmystr2 I was just thinkin.. say.. if this was some amazingly elaborate plot by evil trace to wipe his own mind.. what would it accomplish?
[02:06:24] FenceEqualizer Just had to give it some time.
[02:06:32] Dadrobit "Lumbering Epiphany" is a great band name.
[02:06:49] FenceEqualizer He got to bang a keidren without shame?
[02:06:56] unsteddyphoenix Now THATS some death note shit
[02:06:59] FenceEqualizer Repressed feelings
[02:07:04] Bgrmystr2 lool Fence
[02:07:17] Bgrmystr2 he just wanted the Keidran to have someone to trust
[02:07:23] Bgrmystr2 THEN BETRAY THEM AT THE BEST POSSIBLE TIME
[02:07:32] unsteddyphoenix Gotta reel 'em in~
[02:07:46] FenceEqualizer Chaotic Evil
[02:07:47] Bgrmystr2 only the best of evil elaborate evil plans for trace.
[02:07:48] Dadrobit Right as they come upon Lyn'Knoll, he unlocks and returns to his former Evil Glory
[02:08:01] Bgrmystr2 evilly* elaborate evil
[02:08:09] Bgrmystr2 xD Dadro
[02:08:16] unsteddyphoenix Oh shit, maybe he wanted to find Lyn 'knoll but he just oozed evil
[02:08:33] unsteddyphoenix But they cant find out his plan if HE DOESNT KNOW HIS OWN PLANS
[02:08:44] Dadrobit Literally out of every pore. Oozing evil Like a fat man on a 20 mile hike.
[02:09:03] Bgrmystr2 Sweat is evil, confirmt
[02:09:04] unsteddyphoenix It's like, thick evil too. Like milk thats been left out too long.
[02:09:11] FenceEqualizer But that's a man trying to sweet evil out then
[02:09:16] FenceEqualizer Sweat
[02:09:17] Bgrmystr2 ok that's beyond evil, phoenix
[02:09:19] Bgrmystr2 pls no
[02:09:27] Dadrobit Too far unsteddy, too far...
[02:09:41] FenceEqualizer That's just criminal neglect
[02:09:46] unsteddyphoenix Evil is too far guys, that's why it's EVIL
[02:09:58] Bgrmystr2 No I mean that's like.. cruel and unusual evil
[02:10:08] unsteddyphoenix As opposed to kind and regular evil
[02:10:10] Bgrmystr2 that's not just generic haha I'm bad evil
[02:10:19] Bgrmystr2 xD
[02:10:22] Bgrmystr2 yes
[02:10:33] unsteddyphoenix Well when you genocide it up that kicks it up a few notches
[02:10:50] Dadrobit He's trying to lose the evil pounds, but just because he doesn't sweat the evil as much anymore doesn't mean he's not still actually evil. And when he gets to Lyn'Knoll, he's going to gorge and feast!
[02:11:18] Bgrmystr2 Regular evil doesn't usually bother with like.. leaving the milk out and other stuff.. the little things that people appeciate when evil surrounds them.. a cruel and unusual evil will even destroy that.
[02:11:55] unsteddyphoenix Lyn knoll will be his cheat day
[02:11:55] Dadrobit Trace the kind of Evil to turn up the thermostat just a little too much in the torture chamber.
[02:12:06] Bgrmystr2 haha
[02:12:34] Bgrmystr2 it's not hot enough to make your skin boil.. but just warm enough to make you uncomfortably sweaty..
[02:12:40] Bgrmystr2 and there's no bathrooms.
[02:12:45] Bgrmystr2 evil.
[02:13:12] Dadrobit False, there is a bathroom. Nothing works, but it didn't stop the last 12 truckers that came through from using it.
[02:13:17] unsteddyphoenix Trace the kind of evil to not put any more toilet paper in the bathroom
[02:13:30] unsteddyphoenix ANd theres just like, on piece of paper left
[02:13:35] Bgrmystr2 ahhaha, that's even more evil, phoenix
[02:14:06] FenceEqualizer Everyone must suffer bwahaha. *Turns thermostat up* Jailer: ...Jerk.
[02:14:09] Dadrobit Trace puts the new toilet paper rolls on upside down when the subjects finally work their way through using the cardboard center.
[02:14:15] Bgrmystr2 xDD Fence
[02:14:38] Dadrobit Single ply too.
[02:14:42] Bgrmystr2 :ptv-shock:
[02:14:57] FenceEqualizer You made man!
[02:15:06] Bgrmystr2 terrible
[02:15:08] FenceEqualizer Mad really auto correct?
[02:15:10] Bgrmystr2 absolutely terrible
[02:15:17] Bgrmystr2 maybe you should turn it off, Fence :P
[02:16:08] FenceEqualizer I should but I secretly like it when it messes up in the best way
[02:16:28] FenceEqualizer :ptv-uneasy:
[02:16:40] Bgrmystr2 Honestly, you can learn to do that yourself
[02:16:59] Dadrobit It's what I do.
[02:17:01] Bgrmystr2 by watching how auto-correct chooses words based on what you'd normally write
[02:17:02] unsteddyphoenix No you cun't
[02:17:06] unsteddyphoenix *can't
[02:17:09] unsteddyphoenix dang autocorrect
[02:17:16] Bgrmystr2 phoenix is a perfect example.
[02:17:25] FenceEqualizer Then it's not unintentional, got to play that roulette
[02:17:31] FenceEqualizer Lol, Phoenix
[02:17:48] Bgrmystr2 Of course it's not unintentional. The whole point is to make it LOOK unintentional
[02:17:50] Bgrmystr2 while being intentional
[02:19:04] Bgrmystr2 I mean.. Autocorrect has nothing on Marv's and my own ill-fated attempts to spell Clockwork's name.
[02:19:15] Bgrmystr2 That first word is just sometimes too difficult.
[02:19:21] Bgrmystr2 :ptv-laugh:
[02:19:39] Dadrobit Like me and whispering.
[02:19:42] Dadrobit Never works
[02:20:28] Bgrmystr2 xD whispering is buggy as all getout on picarto
[02:20:39] FenceEqualizer Was going to say
[02:34:56] Dadrobit Alrighty, I'm heading to bed. Gotta wake up early to head over to my parents and take them to their colonoscopies before class...
[02:35:58] Dadrobit Have a good night y'all!
[02:36:27] FenceEqualizer Have a good night!
[02:37:04] FenceEqualizer Gonna hit the hay myself. Later all
[02:37:58] Bgrmystr2 Gnight guys
[02:38:12] Bgrmystr2 I'm not goin to bed cuz vampire and all, but you guys have a good one :V
[02:53:35] unsteddyphoenix Vmprmystr
[02:53:49] Bgrmystr2 ayy you're getting it:ptv-sneakysmirk:
[20:55:06] SpazztasticKiwi Thar be a stream scheduled tomorrow
[21:58:06] Bgrmystr2 Thar's always a stream scheduled on Friday.
[22:05:50] Bgrmystr2 Shoulda said 'Thar always be' :thinking:
[22:05:57] Bgrmystr2 Ruined it. Disappointed in myself.