
◄ Chat Log 25.04.2018 ►
[00:00:33]
Bgrmystr2
so there's going to be some type of virtual surround even in the headsets that have multiple speakers in them
[00:03:04]
Bgrmystr2
you can't replicate a speaker directly behind you 5 foot away in a headset, cuz there's no way to replicate the sound coming from that direction without it playing from speakers that are already playing audio
[00:05:04]
Bgrmystr2
ones with multiple drivers will still use virtual surround to try and fool your brain into thinking it sounds like surround with as little interference from other audio sources as possible
[00:05:13]
Bgrmystr2
but it isn't going to be anywhere close to perfect
[00:06:30]
Bgrmystr2
they are probably the closest to a good virtual surround though, better than others. and only best case scenario, assuming the company actually made each speaker driver in each ear play a different channel.
[00:06:54]
Bgrmystr2
and with 10 drivers, that's only 5 speakers worth. Not 7.
[00:07:13]
Bgrmystr2
so it wouldn't be 100% 7.1surround
[00:07:37]
Dadrobit
Nah, I'm gonna hedge my best and say that they probably do have true 7.1 and they do isolate the channels. It's not going to represent as well as a home theatre setup because they physically not set up in the same way. Programming virtual surround to
[00:07:47]
Dadrobit
interact with 10 drivers seems like more work.
[00:08:32]
Bgrmystr2
you have two ears and 10 speakers, that's only 5 speakers per ear. how do you get 7.1 surround when that adds up to 7 sounds per ear?
[00:08:39]
Dadrobit
10 drivers works for stereo 7.1. Two for sub, two for center, then 3 on each side for front-side, side, and back-side.
[00:10:07]
Bgrmystr2
would the left side speakers reverb for the right side speakers if the sound was close enough?
[00:10:10]
Dadrobit
Then for stereo mode it just sums everything down to the "center" drivers. If it gets fancy it might have an LFE crossover for subs and create a 2.1
[00:10:56]
Dadrobit
I'm not sure I understand the question?
[00:11:15]
Bgrmystr2
hm lemmy think of a way to explain my question :thinking:
[00:11:37]
Bgrmystr2
like.. if you had a sound from the right side.. far enough away it would only play from the right earphone.
[00:12:07]
Bgrmystr2
but if it was close to you on your right side, the left side would reverb the sound cuz it's close, in order to give this illusion of surround
[00:12:17]
Dadrobit
Would it hit the left ear? Probably not in any noticeable manner.
[00:12:44]
Bgrmystr2
so they wouldn't even use virtual surround in that instance?
[00:13:09]
Bgrmystr2
granted if they did, it would make the left speaker play sounds from the left side as well as reverb sounds from the right side
[00:13:12]
Dadrobit
That's where "divergence" comes into mixing. Rarely does a sound only travel through a single isolated channel. Often they'll pipe it at least partially through other channels to better simulate a space.
[00:13:14]
Bgrmystr2
so it would be a little muffled
[00:14:14]
Dadrobit
But that's done in mixing by the actual engineers working on the source media.
[00:14:24]
Bgrmystr2
yeah
[00:18:19]
Dadrobit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9F0yXqWibA
[00:18:30]
Dadrobit
Here's a pretty good showing of what it looks like.
[00:18:34]
Dadrobit
And how it works.
[00:21:26]
Vatruvius
Ohh boy...I was gone for just 20 minutes!
[00:24:17]
Bgrmystr2
biggest problem with that video is that there's no easy way to tell which speaker it'd be coming out of
[00:24:27]
Bgrmystr2
visually, anyway
[00:24:57]
Vatruvius
Okay, read all that. They show the configuration of the 5 speakers in each ear, they are positioned optimally for a true 7.1 experience in a headset.
[00:25:16]
Bgrmystr2
"optimally"
[00:26:27]
Vatruvius
Yeah...all we can do is try to mimic nature...can't copy it exactly. However, their placement is better than virtual surround if tge audio media supports positional sound.
[00:26:39]
Vatruvius
tge*
[00:26:46]
Vatruvius
the*
[00:27:31]
Vatruvius
Really phone, it does not even correct that spelling because so many people make that mistake on the phone. Agh!
[00:29:55]
Dadrobit
What do you mean you can't tell visually? The puck box shows where the audio is going to represent itself in the space, and the meters show exactly how much is actually coming out of each speaker individually.
[00:30:30]
Dadrobit
That may have come out condescending, it's an honest question.
[00:32:42]
Bgrmystr2
Cuz it's just a box with a few bars. That really doesn't tell me anything. There's a front left and left, front right and right, center, rear left and right, and a sub. I can't just make out which "right" or which "left" the sound comes from
[00:33:34]
Bgrmystr2
fuck's sake I butchered that
[00:33:48]
Bgrmystr2
Front left and center left* / front right and center right*
[00:34:34]
Dadrobit
I got that, I'm just trying to parse the misunderstanding of the bars.
[00:35:20]
Dadrobit
They're called PPMs or Peak Programming Meters. They tell how much signal is coming through that channel at a given time.
[00:35:37]
Bgrmystr2
The bars are not labeled, meaning a left audio could be coming out of any one of three left speakers
[00:35:48]
Bgrmystr2
but it doesn't say
[00:36:18]
Dadrobit
They don't change position, so you just have to learn which meter represents which channel.
[00:37:42]
Bgrmystr2
so when you play back one sound on the left speaker, does it play again on the right? to make the 3d effect? Why is that not shown?
[00:38:30]
Dadrobit
Only if you have panned it to have a stereo image or applied divergence to send a certain amount to another channel.
[00:38:59]
Dadrobit
If you're just sending the sound solely to the left speaker, it's going to come out mono-left.
[00:40:33]
Dadrobit
You can add an effect to it that will potentially give it a stereo image like a reverb, but otherwise it will just be mono-left.
[00:41:29]
Vatruvius
What is your opinion of the SteelSeries headsets?
[00:41:33]
Bgrmystr2
if you didn't reverb it, it wouldn't be virtual surround in a headset, would it? Cuz it's only from one side. It would lose the immersion
[00:42:11]
Bgrmystr2
It's something I really hate about headphones. Sometimes a sound only comes out of the left side alone.. and the right side makes no sound at all
[00:42:24]
Bgrmystr2
and that completely breaks the immersion
[00:42:32]
Bgrmystr2
cuz I know that's not how sound works
[00:42:37]
Vatruvius
I believe the virtual surround is about positional sound, at least that is what that all advertise.
[00:42:53]
Dadrobit
Correct, either you have to send the signal at least partially to one side, or add a reverb to it to create a stereo effect.
[00:42:58]
Vatruvius
they*
[00:43:13]
Bgrmystr2
hm okay
[00:43:50]
Dadrobit
Pro Tools isn't gonna stop you from just sending mono audio willy nilly, it takes more than a bunch of sounds in different areas to create a believable space.
[00:44:04]
Dadrobit
But it gives plenty of options to do so.
[00:45:01]
Dadrobit
Virtual surround is the opposite of positional sound. Half of it is just compressing the living daylights out of the dynamics so that stuff like footsteps naturally sound louder.
[00:45:27]
Dadrobit
But positions outside of left - right is not taken into consideration.
[00:45:47]
Dadrobit
It's just a mask they put over the original sound.
[00:46:07]
Dadrobit
You're paying for an audio Instagram filter.
[00:46:37]
Bgrmystr2
:/
[00:54:21]
Dadrobit
I mean, I get it. I used to be into gaming headsets myself before I got into audio, I have my Turtle Beach PX22's right next to me as I type with their multi-mode "Superhuman Hearing" converter to boot. https://i.imgur.com/aJ2FoIv.jpg
[00:55:09]
Bgrmystr2
"Superhuman Hearing" Hahaha, fuckin.. Turtle Beach plss
[00:55:35]
Dadrobit
But knowing what I know now? It's all gimmicks dude. The moment I don't need a mic to talk with my buddies, I pop in my proper old fashioned (but quality) stereo headset and it's just better.
[00:56:25]
Bgrmystr2
why not just use the mic from the turtle beach and listen to the audio from that other headset
[00:56:31]
Bgrmystr2
:thinking:
[00:56:39]
Dadrobit
(That thing is literally just a compressor. The sound floor (hiss) when that is on is atrocious)
[00:56:50]
Bgrmystr2
I usually wear the headset I have around my neck for the mic
[00:56:54]
Bgrmystr2
I don't have it over my ears
[00:57:02]
Dadrobit
It's a built in boom mic.
[00:57:19]
Dadrobit
And it flatters my voice.
[00:57:28]
Vatruvius
Well...looks like I am going for a quality stereo cause the true surround needs 4 3.5mm outputs for true surround. I do not know any laptop with 4 3.5mm outputs.
[00:57:55]
Bgrmystr2
but I mean like.. I don't know why you can't just use the mic and the good headphones at the same time. Mic in and audio out do not have to go to the same thing
[00:57:59]
Bgrmystr2
mine don't.
[00:58:14]
Dadrobit
Playstation
[00:58:34]
Dadrobit
Kinda limited there.
[00:58:40]
Bgrmystr2
ahhh hmm
[00:58:45]
Bgrmystr2
:thinking:
[00:59:01]
Dadrobit
For my computer chatting, I bust out the big boys, but I rarely game on PC.
[01:01:14]
Bgrmystr2
yeah I figured you'd use the good ones on pc
[01:01:16]
Vatruvius
Just a PC gamer here. :D
[01:01:25]
Bgrmystr2
I don't play online on console
[01:01:32]
Bgrmystr2
so I don't gotta worry about it
[01:02:17]
Bgrmystr2
all the games I'd want to play online.. the ones I'd really enjoy.. can't. they don't have multiplayer on that scale, or if they did, that multiplayer doesn't exist anymore.
[01:02:21]
Bgrmystr2
:(
[01:02:54]
Vatruvius
Do you guys know any other quality headphone brands? I need tgem to have a mic.
[01:03:11]
Dadrobit
Most of my buddies are from a PS3 game called MAG. 256 player battles and a really good communication command system.
[01:03:30]
Vatruvius
them*
[01:03:39]
Dadrobit
Build in mic? Not really, sorry.
[01:03:42]
Dadrobit
built*
[01:04:35]
Bgrmystr2
Is MAG the game where a fuckton of people play FPS w/ vehicles while some ppl play it in a strategic view vs a team of other ppl doing the same?
[01:04:45]
Bgrmystr2
cuz I remember a game that combined FPS with strategy
[01:05:01]
Dadrobit
And yeah, my chat system is a wee bit overboard. Costs about as much as the PC itself.
[01:05:06]
Bgrmystr2
and it looked cool as hell, but I couldn't ever buy it
[01:05:11]
Vatruvius
Okay, just a quality headphone brand?
[01:05:25]
Bgrmystr2
and then my HD died, and I lost everything, so I dunno the game name anymore
[01:07:39]
Dadrobit
Audio Technica, Sony, Bose, Senheiser, AKG, Shure... I'm sure I'm missing a ton off the top of my head.
[01:08:00]
Dadrobit
Beyerdynamic
[01:08:57]
Bgrmystr2
hey, do they use condenser mics on stages?
[01:09:05]
Bgrmystr2
or do they use another type of mic?
[01:09:19]
Dadrobit
Behringer used to be crap back in the day, but their stuff has seen some improvements since they acquired some other companies.
[01:10:23]
Dadrobit
That's a whole lotta "It depends". But for the most parts it's dynamic mics.
[01:10:59]
Bgrmystr2
:thinking: Hm okay :thumbsup:
[01:11:12]
Bgrmystr2
Dynamic better for more noisy backgrounds, I'm guessing?
[01:11:14]
Dadrobit
Condensors are super super sensitive and are best suited for studio recording where you can capture the full accurate sound of the source with no background noise.
[01:11:21]
Bgrmystr2
right
[01:12:04]
Dadrobit
The Shure SM57 and SM58 are the two dynamic microphones you're used to seeing at liver performances literally everywhere.
[01:12:13]
Dadrobit
live*
[01:12:26]
Bgrmystr2
ahh
[01:13:41]
Dadrobit
And if you've ever watched a "behind the scenes voice over" segment, you've probably seen a Neumann U87
[01:14:03]
Dadrobit
Very very nice condenser microphone.
[01:14:08]
Dadrobit
$$$$$$$$$$$
[01:14:53]
Dadrobit
Shure SM7B is the workhorse for rap artists, Michael Jackson, and radio DJs.
[01:15:54]
Dadrobit
EV RE-20 is generally the other option for radio.
[01:17:43]
Dadrobit
Oh, and Vat. You can look at any of those brands and anything they offer over $100 is almost certainly going to be #Quality.
[01:18:01]
Vatruvius
Well...I know who to ask for a quality mic if I decide to make videos. :D
[01:18:38]
Dadrobit
Of course, you're still gonna want to shop around for exactly what suits you, but there are tons of great reviews for a ton of their stuff.
[01:20:15]
Dadrobit
Focusrite Scarlett Solo Studio
[01:20:18]
Dadrobit
There you go.
[01:20:33]
Dadrobit
Literally all you need except maybe a mic stand/boom arm.
[01:20:51]
Dadrobit
https://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-Scarlett-Studio-Interface-Recording/dp/B01E6T54E2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1524637163&sr=8-3&keywords=scarlett+studio
[01:21:22]
Vatruvius
I am looking at the SteelSeries stuff. Tgey got a headset, mouse, and nice mousepad so that covers everything. The headset would be the Arctis Pro which is affordable but their dedicated enhanced "gaming" one adds another $70 because it adds a special
[01:21:24]
Dadrobit
I got the 2i2 when I first started out and I use that interface to this day.
[01:21:43]
Vatruvius
processor for better positional virtual surround.
[01:22:36]
Dadrobit
I'm against Steel Series simply on morals.
[01:22:58]
Vatruvius
Morals?
[01:23:12]
Vatruvius
What did they do?
[01:23:31]
Dadrobit
They recently took part in a SJW scheme that backfired spectacularly.
[01:23:55]
Vatruvius
SJW sceme?
[01:25:26]
Dadrobit
They were trying to sell "#BullyHunter" branded gear at a premium. #BullyHunter was a bullshit conceptualization of an anti-bullying program that worked by being a bully.
[01:26:01]
Vatruvius
Okay...still looks like quality products though.
[01:26:12]
Bgrmystr2
I only heard about that once or twice, but didn't really look into it.
[01:26:15]
Dadrobit
Set up by corporate goons, using SJW mouthpieces to spread lies.
[01:26:33]
Bgrmystr2
I feel like I lose brain cells going into that kinda stuff
[01:26:42]
Bgrmystr2
I just watch my anime and play games
[01:26:49]
Bgrmystr2
and keep my sanity
[01:26:58]
Bgrmystr2
ignorance is bliss, I guess
[01:27:13]
Dadrobit
I refuse to knowingly support companies that pull that kind of bullshit. There are plenty of other options to choose from.
[01:27:30]
Vatruvius
Yeah...as much as that would upset me if I looked into it I just finished settling on a headset and mouse. I don't want to start over again.
[01:27:40]
Dadrobit
You do you mate.
[07:08:29]
Barabashe4ka
Hello everybody
[11:31:58]
Vatruvius
Hello people! :ptv-greetings:
[11:33:02]
FlightoFancy6058
has mrs nibbly come to your house yet?
[11:39:56]
Vatruvius
Now that I think about I think she has! :ptv-tease:
[13:32:06]
Zakuru
just gonna toss this fanart in here, https://the-zakuru.deviantart.com/art/TwoKinds-Before-and-After-742000508
[14:08:49]
TheBeckoner
Hey, that's pretty good.
[14:52:49]
Bgrmystr2
You've improved tremendously
[15:23:10]
Vatruvius
Not bad Zak.
[16:05:55]
Zakuru
thanks guys :3
[23:19:19]
NightMeaty22
Hello... is this the right house?
[23:23:49]
NightMeaty22
No
[23:23:54]
NightMeaty22
?